[mulage]

I just had my car aligned after installing Hotchkis springs and i am wondering? does lowering cause the car to add toe and toe out or cause toe-in?

by looking at the inner tie rods on the car, it looks they added toe to the car (there where marks where ford marked the factory alignment.

the specs i got are:

front left= negative -0.04 before and 0.04 after

front right= negative-0.01 before and 0.07 after

 

[Guest]

It SHOULD just add negitive camber. But you can get other movement. Alignments are not perfect from the factory...

 

[Guest]

Negative toe means toe-out which is what happens when lowering.

Wheel Alignment Explained - What is Caster, Camber, Toe In, Toe Out, Alignment - Four Wheel Alignment

 

[OAC_Sparky]

It SHOULD just add negitive camber. But you can get other movement. Alignments are not perfect from the factory...

No. It will add negative camber and increase toe out. See below.

Negative toe means toe-out which is what happens when lowering.

Wheel Alignment Explained - What is Caster, Camber, Toe In, Toe Out, Alignment - Four Wheel Alignment

Yes.

OP, everybody understands the negative camber part -- the wheel sits higher in the wheelwell and as it does the top of the wheel "tips in".

What often is overlooked is that as the wheel "tips in", the tie rod, which is attached at the rear of the spindle and remains the same length, so it pulls the back of the wheel inward, causing toe out.

The same phenomenon happens when you hit bumps when you're cornering, it's called "bumpsteer". As your suspension travels in a bump it causes the tire toe out and cause understeer.

 

[Ghipera]

No. It will add negative camber and increase toe out. See below.


Yes.

OP, everybody understands the negative camber part -- the wheel sits higher in the wheelwell and as it does the top of the wheel "tips in".

What often is overlooked is that as the wheel "tips in", the tie rod, which is attached at the rear of the spindle and remains the same length, so it pulls the back of the wheel inward, causing toe out.

The same phenomenon happens when you hit bumps when you're cornering, it's called "bumpsteer". As your suspension travels in a bump it causes the tire toe out and cause understeer.

This makes sense. So even if I have cc plates , its still not agood idea to try and adjust the camber between street and track use. Or am I missing something?

 

[OAC_Sparky]

This makes sense. So even if I have cc plates , its still not agood idea to try and adjust the camber between street and track use. Or am I missing something?

Once you've adjusted for the toe out effect that was caused by the suspension drop, the toe setting shouldn't change as much when you're adjusting.the camber. Remember that it's the drop that changed the toe and camber, not the camber adjustment itself (so much).

 

[Ghipera]

Once you've adjusted for the toe out effect that was caused by the suspension drop, the toe setting shouldn't change as much when you're adjusting.the camber. Remember that it's the drop that changed the toe and camber, not the camber adjustment itself (so much).

So I could adjust it myself, before going to the track?

 

[OAC_Sparky]

So I could adjust it myself, before going to the track?

(Assuming you mean camber) I would suppose it depends on the recommendations on your adjustment plate manufacturer. You can adjust camber without an alignment rack; whether by a digital protractor and a straight edge to some pre-manufactured solutions. I did mine myself after doing my suspension mods to get to the alignment shop the first time.

If you're looking at changing the setting often, ideally you'd want to experiment on an alignment rack the first time to see if you can get repeatable results.

Now also bear in mind that I don't race; so I'm sure somebody that does can answer you better about specific parts. My main concern would be be wear and tear on the bolts that lock down your camber setting; it's usually not good to torque bolts again and again.

 

[Ghipera]

(Assuming you mean camber) I would suppose it depends on the recommendations on your adjustment plate manufacturer. You can adjust camber without an alignment rack; whether by a digital protractor and a straight edge to some pre-manufactured solutions. I did mine myself after doing my suspension mods to get to the alignment shop the first time.

If you're looking at changing the setting often, ideally you'd want to experiment on an alignment rack the first time to see if you can get repeatable results.

Now also bear in mind that I don't race; so I'm sure somebody that does can answer you better about specific parts. My main concern would be be wear and tear on the bolts that lock down your camber setting; it's usually not good to torque bolts again and again.

thanks for the reply.

 

[Guest]

Set your camber where you want it for track use(start at -2.0 IMO) and get your other alignment specs in order all at once. If you are serious about track use then those track miles will put more wear on the tires then your street miles. Camber won't cause damaging wear nearly as fast as out-of-spec toe settings.

Vorshlag started at -2.5 for their Auto-x car and ended up with -3.5, but they absolutely tore up the track running 11/10ths so I think -2.0 for open tracking would be a good starting point.

 

[mulage]

Thanks for all the good info!, makes sense now.

 

[Guest]

Post some on-track photos when you get the chance. Nothing more awesome than a badass Mustang tearing up a road course.:bigthumbsup

 

[Norm Peterson]

So I could adjust it myself, before going to the track?

Absolutely.

In fact, there's little reason you couldn't do it AT the event in your paddock space. I did exactly that for several years autocrossing a '79 Chevy Malibu (-0.7° street to -2.5ish). All you need is a solidly repeatable way of hitting your street and competition settings. And a floor jack to unload the suspension and make physically moving the strut inclination easier/reduce damage due to prying with some tool for leverage. Five minutes a side without assistance and including jack time is easily possible.


As to toe vs camber, it depends on where your camber adjustment is made. Adjusting at the strut top for more negative camber should push your toe slightly in the "out" direction. Maybe not all the way into a toe-out condition, but at least to where the toe-in is a tiny bit less. That's a fortunate coincidence for most front-steer arrangements, to be able to adjust only camber and have toe at least be shifting in the right direction for the activity that you're shifting the camber for in the first place.


Norm