[mantra]

Hi I have a 67 Mustang Coupe with a 289 in it, a Edelbrock Carburetor 4bbl. Well the problem is my car overheats Ive changed the radiator I have taken the thermostat out (it dosent have a thermostat right now) but as soon as I hit the freeway it starts to heat up still. Ive checked compression and on all 8 cylinders it was fine. But I did notice that when I took my spark plugs out they were all filled with fuel, so I know its running rich. I want to try and change the timing because I also think its incorrect and I know that dosent help the rich conditon. I looked at the shaft for numbers but theres nothing there,theres only a bunch of white lines. I really dont know how to change timing in the first place, Im a learning mechanic. I was told the correct timng is 12 while I disconnect the dist. vaccum hose. Is that correct? How do I change the timing, and how do I tune my carb. If I fix this two problems will my car stop overheating? Cause Ive checked everything and it seems to be a big mystery and I want my car back running with a thermostat on too. This problems appeared when my ignition coil went bad and I was stubborn that the problem was the dist. cause the coil had a good amount of spark it seemed like. So I change the point and the condenser but it would not start so I bought a whole new dist. and thats when all these problems starded to happen when I was putting the rotor back in position and my timing went bad and my carb seemed really rich cause it was at really high idle. By the way the dist. was not the problem it was the ignition coil it actually did not have enough power, cause it had spark but not enough. My friend seemed to fix the timing and the rich carb but ever since then my car starded to overheat. I want to do it myself and actually get everything correct so please HELP!!! I really want to get my stang up and running ones again!!! THANK YOU FOR READING ALL THIS i REALLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR OPINIONS AND YOUR HELP, THANK YOU!!!!

 

[5.0 in a 66]

Incorrect timing can definatley cause overheating. Improperly adjusted carbs can also cause overheating, but only if they're lean, not rich. Does it smell rich? Oh, RUNNING WITH A THERMOSTAT IS VERY BAD, PUT A 180º IN PRONTO!

Running without a thermostat makes the coolant circulate too fast, and all kinds of things can happen. Anything lower than a 180º thermostat can cause the cylinders to get washed down in unburnt fuel, and the engine wont be running efficently besides. If the cylinder walls get enough unburnt gas on them, it'll etch the block and then your engine is junk!

12 is no timing spec. 12 what? 12 degrees? When? BTDC or ATDC? Usual spec is 6-8º BTDC. (TDC is TOP DEAD CENTER, it refers to piston #1 being all the way up on the compression stroke. BTDC is before TDC, ATDC is after TDC)

I'd find someone who knows 100% what they are doing (an old guy ) and have them to install a thermostat, set the timing and retune the carb. This sounds like a problem that needs to get fixed ASAP before the engine overheats once and for all, otherwise I'd have said go for it.
HTH
--Kyle

 

[mantra]

Well ones I took the thermostat out of my system it starded running much better in the streets but if I get in a freeway my car still over heats and sometimes depending on the weather outside, it even starts over heating in the streets but not as bad as when I get in a freeway, I think my car dosent over heat as bad on the streets cause of the GO/STOP situation.

 

[5.0 in a 66]

Running BETTER without a thermostat or running COOLER???

 

[mantra]

It runs Cooler without a thermostat, by the way here are the timing specs I got from auto zone:

Timing Specification:
For your 1967 Ford Mustang:
Timing Specification 12 Degrees
BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER
*SET AT WARM IDLE SPEED (650 RPM)
*DISTRIBUTOR VACUUMHOSE DISCONNECTED & PLUGGED
*ALL ACCESSORIES OFF
*TRANSMISSION IN DRIVE (PARKING BRAKE ENGAGED)

 

[5.0 in a 66]

BTW: How do you tell that its overheating? The factory gauges aint the best and open radiators like these will naturally spew a little coolant out of the overflow tube until they get comfortably full. THE FIRST THING I'd do is temporarily stick on a mech temp gauge from autozone and see how hot its getting. 210 is NOT HOT!

If it's overheating, Time to flush the system, new hoses (spring reinforced lower hose), and get a new rad cap.

On the balancer the long line is 0, one line is 6 BTDC and one is 6 ATDC IIRC. Thing is the balancer could have slipped, so the marks arent right. i'd put on a timing tape so you'll know the truth.

12º seems wrong, I'll have to look in my shop manual

HTH
--Kyle

 

[mantra]

Thanks Kyle I really appreciate it, please get back to me as soon as you see your shop manual. I can tell my car is overheating by the factory gauge, it goes pretty much all the way up, if its on a no stop driving situation such as a freeway, but when its on the streets with a go/stop situation the gauge kind of sits at half, unless I accelelarate alot then the temperature goes to the roof but it comes down slowly as soon as I get a red traffic light.(it dosent come down right away though, it takes some traffic stops and me going more at a steady pace then it will begin to go back towards half). By the way where can I get a timing tape?

 

[5.0 in a 66]

what i'd do now is put on a mechanical gauge and see. I wouldnt be surprised if the factory gauge is wrong.

 

[krankieone]

I have a couple of thaughts

Firstly 6deg BTDC is about standard for 289

Secondly I run a 160 deg thermostat.

If it overheats on the freeway but is ok at idle I'd be checking the lower radiator hose if the spring is missing or stuffed the hose can colapse cutting of the water flow at higher rpm when you back off the throtle the hose opens up water flow returns

 

[ixtlan]

Ok here are some basics the Old School way. This is really basic so dont take offense if it sounds like you have no idea what your doing. Just because your plugs are wet does not mean you are rich. Check your tail pipe color. It should be a mid to lighter grey. If it is Black then you are rich. If it is a Light Grey to white you are lean. If you change your rods or jets you will need to drive a bit for the pipe to change color again (About 20 miles). As for the timing. Place your #1 cylinder at Top Dead Center and line up the TDC mark on your balancer and timing mark on the compression stroke. (Remove the plug and turn your engine over by hand until you feel pressure against your finger over the plug hole. When your piston nears the top put a pencil or something in the hole and watch where it stops pushing out. Dont put it in too early and drop the pencil into the cylinder. When it stops pushing out thats TDC) Pull your distributor cap and make sure the rotor is lined up with the #1 plug wire post in your cap. If not then your distributor is installed a tooth or two off and you need to pull it and reinstall it correctly. (It will be obviously off) I assume you have a timing light. Put it on the #1 plug and start the engine. When you point it at the timing mark you will see the TDC line. (Paint your lines white to make them easier to see) Also you should see the gradient marks for your degrees. I run a 289 at about 10 degrees BTDC (Before Top dead center). This will vary with altitude and setups. The best way to adjust it is to set it at a 6 degrees BTDC with the vacume line disconnected and plugged. Then reconnect the line and take the car out. Bring your light and a 1/2 inch wrench with you and find a empty paved road. From a dead stop floor the car and listen for Ping. It will be right at the beginning so you dont need to speed or anything. If no ping then loosen the distributor hold down bolt , disconnect and plug your line, and advance the timing 2 degrees then reconnect your line and try again. Once you get Ping then then you went too far and back it off 1 or 2 degrees until it goes away. This is the old school way of doing things but it works. Some other items to check would be your Choke plate. Make sure it opens All the way when warmed up. The electric chokes are notorious for failing. I went manual with mine. There are conversion kits if want to do that. Also check your firing order of you wires. I believe it will be 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 #1 is the left forward cylinder as you are looking at your engine from the front. #8 is the right side rear cylinder. Let us know what you find if anything. Hope this helps.

 

[67Vert]

ixtlan, so you say he has no idea what he's doing and then you give him all those instuctions?! Get serious. If he does not know what he is doing, he can't possibly follow all that. Much less do it.
Mantra, if you don't want to use a timing light or are not sure if can, pick up a vacuum gauge and I can help you get the timing to specs in five minutes. That is the real "old school" way for beginners.
By the way, don't run anything but a 180 degree thermostat on a 289. Put your finger in the tailpipe without touching it for a little while, if it comes out black, you're too rich. You can get fix that with a vacuum gauge, as well.

 

[krankieone]

By the way, don't run anything but a 180 degree thermostat on a 289. Put your finger in the tailpipe without touching it for a little while, if it comes out black, you're too rich. You can get fix that with a vacuum gauge, as well.

A couple of questions

why do you say use 180 deg mine seem to be OK with a 160 and seems less prone to overheating in hot weather but if there is a good reason . . . .

I'm also interested in the use of a vacume gauge as a tuning tool I've never owned one

 

[67Vert]

The reason is that the 180 allows the coolant to stay in the radiator longer and for the cooling system to work properly. Not to mention that every Mustang magazine recommends it (not necessarily experts, but...) and it is the stock or factory part. You might not overheat in regular driving, but the temp might shoot up in bumper to bumper traffic or if you drive the car in a parade. I used to run 160 and that's what happened to me. Switched to 180 and never had an issue.
You can use a vacuum gauge to adjust timing to within 1 degree of where it should be. It can also help with idle circuit richness and leaness. If someone wants to pick up a gauge, I can help you. Or just do a Google search for "vacuum gauge" and "set timing" and something should pop up. It is very easy.

 

[ixtlan]

ixtlan, so you say he has no idea what he's doing and then you give him all those instuctions?! Get serious. If he does not know what he is doing, he can't possibly follow all that. Much less do it.
Mantra, if you don't want to use a timing light or are not sure if can, pick up a vacuum gauge and I can help you get the timing to specs in five minutes. That is the real "old school" way for beginners.
By the way, don't run anything but a 180 degree thermostat on a 289. Put your finger in the tailpipe without touching it for a little while, if it comes out black, you're too rich. You can get fix that with a vacuum gauge, as well.

No dont misunderstand.
What I meant was I was going to go into detail and did not want anyone to be offeneded if I wrote it like they had no idea what they were doing. Perhaps I could have said that better.

 

[67Vert]

ixtlan, I see what you mean now. But, even your "simplified" instructions are really too much for a beginner, you know? After re-reading everything, I agree with you that his dizzy is probably installed incorrectly and needs to pulled out and reinstalled.

 

[mantra]

I checked my balancer and it has this markings TDC | 3 6 9 12 How do I change the timing. By the way I changed the lower radiator hose with one that has a spring in it and I changed my bypass hose since it looked bend. And this did not fix the problem. I also got a new thermostat but I havent installed it yet cause they gave me a 195 degree one and said it was the stocked one. Is this correct? Thank you for your help!

 

[ixtlan]

I checked my balancer and it has this markings TDC | 3 6 9 12 How do I change the timing. By the way I changed the lower radiator hose with one that has a spring in it and I changed my bypass hose since it looked bend. And this did not fix the problem. I also got a new thermostat but I havent installed it yet cause they gave me a 195 degree one and said it was the stocked one. Is this correct? Thank you for your help!

You may want to ask a friend with a bit of experience to help you out.
Hook up your timing light.
Loosen the distributer hold down bolt and start the engine.
Point the timing light at the balancer and twist the dizzy in place to adjust. A little does alot so dont get carried away.
Shut down and tighten bolt. Restart and recheck.
It is not difficult but spinning fans and such tend to want to catch things like timing light cables ect..

 

[Jimij]

I agree on the incorrectly installed dist. I would worry about the cooling system after that is fixed.

 

[POBox12]

Running rich,hot and rough...

I just read you symtoms and they are the same troubles as my 65 Mustang 289 Auto Trans. I did all you did from replacing carb, coil and distributor. You would not beleive what I found. Mine still idles rough but runs very smooth, I let it park and it gets hot and will run very rough and skip , can't keep it running. I found on my distributor the center lead from the coil was pushed back in the boot and the spark would break down when the car got warm and hot..I let it cool and it ran like new. fix my coil wire and now satisfied...except I still have a rough idle...might be from my air conditioner...not sure yet...Thanks for all the comments made in you question...smoothing running, Tom PO Box 12

Hi I have a 67 Mustang Coupe with a 289 in it, a Edelbrock Carburetor 4bbl. Well the problem is my car overheats Ive changed the radiator I have taken the thermostat out (it dosent have a thermostat right now) but as soon as I hit the freeway it starts to heat up still. Ive checked compression and on all 8 cylinders it was fine. But I did notice that when I took my spark plugs out they were all filled with fuel, so I know its running rich. I want to try and change the timing because I also think its incorrect and I know that dosent help the rich conditon. I looked at the shaft for numbers but theres nothing there,theres only a bunch of white lines. I really dont know how to change timing in the first place, Im a learning mechanic. I was told the correct timng is 12 while I disconnect the dist. vaccum hose. Is that correct? How do I change the timing, and how do I tune my carb. If I fix this two problems will my car stop overheating? Cause Ive checked everything and it seems to be a big mystery and I want my car back running with a thermostat on too. This problems appeared when my ignition coil went bad and I was stubborn that the problem was the dist. cause the coil had a good amount of spark it seemed like. So I change the point and the condenser but it would not start so I bought a whole new dist. and thats when all these problems starded to happen when I was putting the rotor back in position and my timing went bad and my carb seemed really rich cause it was at really high idle. By the way the dist. was not the problem it was the ignition coil it actually did not have enough power, cause it had spark but not enough. My friend seemed to fix the timing and the rich carb but ever since then my car starded to overheat. I want to do it myself and actually get everything correct so please HELP!!! I really want to get my stang up and running ones again!!! THANK YOU FOR READING ALL THIS i REALLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR OPINIONS AND YOUR HELP, THANK YOU!!!!

 

[fastponyboy]

I run a restrictor only in my car, granted I use it to drag race more than a daily driver, but I was told I must use something to restrict the coolant flow so I simply used the top half of a thermostat and it works fine. I do own a vacuum gauge though and I would like to know how you set the timing with it.