[mrvandermey]

Hello all, I am in desperate need of some real help here. I have built a nice 302 engine, and it is ready to go. I bought a new C4 transmission to install with the 302. I am having a problem. I have now managed to completely crack not one, but two bell housings. what am I doing wrong?

I have the spacer plate on, flexplate (with support ring) on. When I go to put transmission on, the top bolts tighten all the way down bring a tight seal to top of bell housing. But the bottom 4 go 95% the way, leaving a small gap. When I tighten it, SNAP there goes the bell housing. On the second one, I was being careful not over tightening it, then it snapped anyways.

I have tried to install this tranny with converter on engine then mount tranny....no success.
I tried having converter connected to tranny then tranny to engine...no success (this is where I am Cracking the bell housing).


Is the bell housing supposed to be flush all the way around to the block? Anyt ips, tricks advice? I am really tired of replacing the bell housing.

At this point I truly regret building this engine project. Right now I am fed u with entire project and just really want to sell the car, but hard to do so with engine and tranny on the ground.

 

[paul289]

Bellhousing MUST be flush against the block before tightening. Which side of the flexplate is the support ring on? What flexplate do you have? Because your torque converter is hitting the flexplate too early. Another question: Is there a pilot bushing/bearing in the crank pocket? Because the torque converter is supposed to index in the pocket.

 

[mrvandermey]

Bellhousing MUST be flush against the block before tightening. Which side of the flexplate is the support ring on? What flexplate do you have? Because your torque converter is hitting the flexplate too early. Another question: Is there a pilot bushing/bearing in the crank pocket? Because the torque converter is supposed to index in the pocket.

Support ring is on outside of flexpalte (side facing transmission). I have a Summit Racing flexplate (157 tooth). I am not sure what a pilot bushing/bearing is or what it looks like so I can not answer that. The torque converter clicked in twice and sites below the surface of the bellhousing. When I installed the tranny to engine, it was flush at top and one side (driver side) but not the other.

 

[Yadkin]

The converter must go in first and be solidly bottomed in. This should be two "clunks" to seat all the way in. Look at some youtube videos for the technique.

The transmission should then slide in flush with the rear of the engine by hand. There should be at least one boss that helps line them up. Never tighten bolts to force them together.

 

[mrvandermey]

The converter must go in first and be solidly bottomed in. This should be two "clunks" to seat all the way in. Look at some youtube videos for the technique.

The transmission should then slide in flush with the rear of the engine by hand. There should be at least one boss that helps line them up. Never tighten bolts to force them together.

When you say "converter must in first and be solidly bottomed in" you do mean converter into bell housing/transmission, correct? I did that.

Yes, I discovered it needs to be flush before tightening as that is how I cracked not one, but two bell housings. I did a prefit with the bell housing to block before I attached the bell housing to tranny to ensure it fit the block properly. But somewhere after bell housing was attached to tranny, I was off. How do I get tranny with bell housing to line up flush before I tighten bolts

 

[Grimbrand]

Bottom line here: If the torque converter is solidly against the transmission (2 clunks) and the spacer plate is between the flexplate and engine, you have the bolts on the torque converter going through the flexplate, then the engine and transmission should touch each other all the way around.

You do NOT use bolts to 'bring them together'. They should BE together. I know you had to do some stuff with your pins. Are they too big? Are they sticking out too far? Maybe the flexplate or the torque converter isn't the right one?

The main thing that would cause them not to be 'together' when you try to bolt 'em up is the torque converter not being fully seated on the transmission. It's a MASSIVE pain in the rear to try and bolt up the torque converter to the flexplate and THEN get it on the transmission right. That's a lot harder to do. Do you think it's coming unseated as you mess around and try to get the bolts through your flywheel once you drop it in place?

My suggestion might be to get them in place, see if they touch, and then if they don't spin the engine over (have a friend turn it with a breakover bar or something) so the torque converter seats itself properly once again.

Alternatively, maybe you could just bolt them up properly OUT of the car, and then put them in together, if this is really hard. Best to have a friend help you out while you're putting 'em in, obviously.

These little bolts should go in silky smooth. Not "I am really tightening this thing down! It's taking some force!". More "I can run these in with my fingers and then torque them the last little bit".

 

[mrvandermey]

Both engine and tranny are on the ground out side of car. I was hoping to install engine 2 weeks ago, but was not paying attention and cracked the first bell housing. It took two weeks to get a new bell housing. I paid careful attention this time, I quit tightening bolts once they were just past hand tight. I stepped away from it and it then cracked the second bell housing just as I stood there. I just ordered the third bell housing today, it will be 10 days or so for it to come in.

I thought it might be the pins, but I cut them down so I know they are not sticking out too far. After the first bell housing cracked, I thought about the pins being too big. So when I got the second bell housing, I dry fitted to engine block and it fit nicely. so I am thinking it was not fully aligned and tightening it did not help.

 

[Tony 64]

Post some pictures of the tranny as it sits ready to bolt to the engine.
You are using a 6 bolt bell not a 5 bolt are you?
Either you have the wrong bell or the converter isn't seated correctly or, the converter isn't aligned properly on the flex plate.
Be sure to bolt the TC to the flexplate first (just nipped up) before you attempt to tighten the bell to the block.
As said above, the bell should be flat against the block all te way around before you tighten any bolts.

 

[baylensmanfl]

The converter must go in first and be solidly bottomed in. This should be two "clunks" to seat all the way in. Look at some youtube videos for the technique.

The transmission should then slide in flush with the rear of the engine by hand. There should be at least one boss that helps line them up. Never tighten bolts to force them together.

This is the most common issue with DIY transmission installs over 30 years I've seen it dozens of times, either cracking a bell or cracking the front pump housing. When putting the torque converter on the input shaft slide it solidly home so to speak you will feel and hear the "CLUNK" then while putting mild pressure on the T/C backwards gentle begin to rotate the T/C till you hear and feel a second "CLUNK" if done correctly the face of the T/C will be behind the edge of the bell housing.

Your flywheel should have a seperate hole or have one of the holes elongated to fit around the T/C drain plug. I like to have both of these pointing straight down, but as long as you have them pre aligned prior to sliding the transmission on to the block alignment pins you should be good.

Your transmission jack should be set so that you move the transmission back and forth and tilted slightly upwards at the front. As the two parts come together raise the back of the transmission so that the bell and engine are parallel. By hand you should have no gap between the two or at most a barely visible "maybe i can get a feeler gauge in there type of gap," before installing the first bolt. all bolts should be hand tightened and bottomed out before using a wrench.

 

[Yadkin]

When you say "converter must in first and be solidly bottomed in" you do mean converter into bell housing/transmission, correct? I did that.

Yes, I discovered it needs to be flush before tightening as that is how I cracked not one, but two bell housings. I did a prefit with the bell housing to block before I attached the bell housing to tranny to ensure it fit the block properly. But somewhere after bell housing was attached to tranny, I was off. How do I get tranny with bell housing to line up flush before I tighten bolts

Yes, converter into the transmission. Watch some Youtubes. One quart of fluid into the converter. use a flashlight to inspect the transmission seal and past the seal. Lubricate the seal and converter shaft. Insert carefully so you don't mess up the seal. Turn while lightly pushing, clunk #1, turn again while lightly pushing, clunk #2. Monster Transmission has a good video that shows how to do this.

Also make sure that your flex plate is installed correctly on the engine. Measure!

When you do get it all together, the last step is to work through the dust cover to get the converter bolted to the flex plate. Make sure that your drain (on the converter) is lined up properly with the access hole on the flex plate. Use red locktite on the bolt threads and torque them to spec.

 

[paul289]

The pilot bushing is for manual transmissions to keep the input shaft centered. If your 302 came from a manual <acronym title="transmission">trans</acronym> car, it might still be in there. It's either a needle bearing or a brass bushing. If the hole in the center of the crank is small, then the bushing is still in there and needs to come out. If the hole is big, then something else is the problem.

 

[baylensmanfl]

When you say "converter must in first and be solidly bottomed in" you do mean converter into bell housing/transmission, correct? I did that.

Yes, I discovered it needs to be flush before tightening as that is how I cracked not one, but two bell housings. I did a prefit with the bell housing to block before I attached the bell housing to tranny to ensure it fit the block properly. But somewhere after bell housing was attached to tranny, I was off. How do I get tranny with bell housing to line up flush before I tighten bolts

Look closely at the two pictures in my earlier post. the front of the torque convertor must be at least 1/2 inch behind the front edge of the bell housing. NOT FLUSH!!oldguy.gif

 

[mrvandermey]

The face of the torque converter is indeed behind the edge of the bellhousing. All four of the TC bolts slid into the bolt holes in flexplate. Now you all just mentioned something new to me....drain plug on TC? I do not recall seeing that or anything on the TC that might be that. But then again, tat does sound like it could have been my problem. Or the center of the TC is not aligning nicely with the main hole in flexplate. I know one problem, you all mentioned the bellhousing should be flush before tightening bolts, that was not the case, hence the cracking.

I do not have a transmission jack so I am simply muscling it into place, with both engine and tranny on the ground. I though I lined it up so they were same height, but obviously i was off somewhere.

 

[Tony 64]

If the TC doesn't have a drain plug, then you have an aftermarket converter, these tend to have no drain hole.
No big deal.
The standard drain plug should fit through the larger hole in the flex plate.
Do you have a shop manual?
If not I highly recommend you get one.

 

[Yadkin]

Torque converter, drain plug to the right of the closest threaded stud. Second pug 180 degrees from the first.

 

[Yadkin]

First picture, flex plate installed with drain plugs accessible.

Second picture, flex plate installed upside down (incorrect). Note that this causes about 1/2" extra width in the assembly.

 

[mrvandermey]

First picture, flex plate installed with drain plugs accessible.

Second picture, flex plate installed upside down (incorrect). Note that this causes about 1/2" extra width in the assembly.

That might be my problem. Does the concave/indention of the flexplate always face towards transmission?

 

[Grimbrand]

The flexplate *has* to be bolted to the engine's crankshaft first. Because the bolts are not symmetrical, the flexplate will ONLY bolt onto the crankshaft one way. One of the bolts is 'off' just enough to make it impossible to put all the screws in except one specific way. It's also impossible to reach those bolts once you have the engine and transmission together, so this one's a no-brainer.

The indexing of these bolts is very important, because the engine is externally balanced, and the weights on the flexplate need to be in the right position to balance out the crankshaft. So yes, it's directional (has to cup around the torque converter for lack of a better term). You have to put on the engine separator plate before you put on the flexplate too, because there's no way to slip it over once you bolt things up.

So 1) put on the separator plate.

2) Put the flexplate on the engine.

3) put the torque converter on the transmission and engage it fully.

4) mate the engine and transmission, being careful not to pull the torque converter off the snout, disengaging it from things and causing problems. Once you have the dowels in their correct place, everything should just snug right up, allowing you to run in some screws and keep them that way pretty easily (except for trying to hold up your heavy transmission!).

Having the drain plug accessible through the hole is nice I suppose, but IMHO, that really has never been a benefit to me, as I've never tried to drain a torque converter before while it was on the engine. I can see that it's SUPPOSED to go that way, but given that they are balanced, and the plug shouldn't interfere with the flexplate no matter how you put it on, I'm not sure how big of a priority this should be.

Any problem I can think of that would make you drain the torque converter probably would require you dropping the whole transmission anyway.

I am mildly concerned that I see no counterweights on your flexplate. Did you order one that is balanced for your engine?

 

[mrvandermey]

I believe my flexplate has a counter balance weights on it. But I am not sure if the flexplate is balanced to my engine or not.

So I discovered the bolt pattern of flexplate only goes one way. But let me make sure I understand something...the flexplate is dished in the center (concave). Currently I have the deep part of the dish facing engine, not tranny. Should it be the other way (like in the pics above)?

 

[Grimbrand]

Simply said: If you can get all the bolts into the crankshaft, it's right. It ONLY goes on one way. No other way works. The first picture is right, but keep in mind, that's on top of the torque converter, not bolted to the crankshaft.

It curves away from the engine block at the edges, basically.

If you somehow have it bolted to the crankshaft upside down, you are a very determined person and I really would like to know how you managed to do that without drilling out one of the holes in the flexplate a bit wider!