[66slvrpny]

Hey guys I am going to be swapping out m c4 for a 2001 4R70W trans on my 66 Stang.

I found what seems to be the best "how to" on the net here is the link:
https://forums.vintage-mustang.com/....com/mod-custom-forum/1119498-1965-4r70w-conversion-complete-how-pic-heavy.html

I have to give the guy credit cause you dont come across how to's this detailed

My main reason for the post is to pic your guys brains. Has anyone done this conversion on here? if so do you have any suggestions or tips?

 

[Grimbrand]

Not sure what year your engine is, but if it's a 289, you will need a flexplate that has a 28.5 oz imbalance for your 4R70W. Your stock C4 shifter and linkage will work fine, without the need for cables. You may need some exhaust work, because the new transmission is a little wider than your old C4.

You will need a special crossmember for this swap. The bolt holes are all basically the same, but the transmission's bolts are about 2" rearward from your C4's mount, if I recall correctly.

Other than the possibility of needing your driveshaft shortened (which may not be the case!), you shouldn't run into anything weird. =)

 

[66slvrpny]

Not sure what year your engine is, but if it's a 289, you will need a flexplate that has a 28.5 oz imbalance for your 4R70W. Your stock C4 shifter and linkage will work fine, without the need for cables. You may need some exhaust work, because the new transmission is a little wider than your old C4.

You will need a special crossmember for this swap. The bolt holes are all basically the same, but the transmission's bolts are about 2" rearward from your C4's mount, if I recall correctly.

Other than the possibility of needing your driveshaft shortened (which may not be the case!), you shouldn't run into anything weird. =)

Yes my engine is the original 289. Its good to hear that the stock linkage will work. according to this guys "how to" if I change the tailshaft I can get a new shorter driveshaft compared to shortening mine.

now when you mentioned the flexplate this guy used a 50oz 164 tooth flexplate for a 1990 mustang 5.0 AOD.

The part that really sucks is everyone says you cant run tri-y headers and I have one year old ceramic tri-y's

Here is the parts list he has on his how to. if you see anything that seems odd or unnecessary let me know. Thanks Grim.

Ebay:
-2001 Mustang V6 4r70w WITH speedo splines on the output shaft
-AOD tailshaft RF-F2TP-7A040-AA
-450 lb Low Lift Transmission Jack 7 1/4" to 23 1/4" Lift Height Inc Strap Cradle

CJ Pony Parts:
-AOD Transmission crossmember TRA-656-639
-AOD Transmission starter index plate TSP12
-AOD Inspection plate INSP10
-T5/AOD Conversion 50.5" driveshaft DS5
-T5 28 spline Driveshaft yoke T5Y
-65-73 Transmission Mount TM2253

Late Model Restoration:
-AOD Torque converter nuts HDW-377704S
-AOD transmission to engine block bolts HDW-6392B
-AOD flexplate to crank bolts LRS-6379AK
-4r70w trans fluid/filter/gasket LRS-4R70WSVC

Summit Racing:
-B&M Transmission cooler 70268
-Headman shorty headers 88400
-Lokar shift boot 70-FMB

Baumann Electronic Controls:
-Quick 4 Electronic Transmission Control System

LKQ Dismantlers OKC:
-2001 V6 Mustang automatic shifter with cable
-1995 Mustang automatic shift nob

Amazon:
-Jones Exhaust Sxp4 2-1/2stamped X-Pipe
-Derale 13017 Transmission/Engine Oil Hose for the trans fluid to cooler lines
-Heatshield Products (204012) 1/2" ID x 10' Hot Rod Sleeve Roll to shield the trans lines

 

[Grimbrand]

The flexplate he has listed is wrong. A 50 oz imbalance flexplate will shake your engine apart. You need one for a 289/302 with 28.5 imbalance. The tooth count/type is determined by the bell housing (in this case 164 tooth) but the balance is determined by your engine.

This flexplate should work.

And as stated, you won't need the late model shifter, boot, or knob. Just use your factory shifter stuff. It will bolt right up.

Your existing driveshaft *may* be the correct length, without swapping your new transmission tailshaft. There are a lot of options for dealing with the length/u-joint/yoke situation.

Also, I would *try* (no pun intended) your Tri-Y headers. Many of them do work with the AOD or 4R70W transmissions. If they are close, many times you can simply use a board or similar lever to bend them out and gain the clearance you need. You can sometimes stick an axe handle or the like into the end of the collector and gain a half-inch or so just by prying. Because yours are ceramic coated, this may damage the coating in some places, but at least you wouldn't have to buy a new set!

So - bottom line here, you're not going from a manual to an automatic here. All of your shifter stuff is fine, so don't buy anything shift-related except the controller. If your exhaust can be made to clear, you won't want to buy any of the exhaust stuff either - although his parts choice will work, I'm sure. I much prefer Tri-Y headers to shorties in every way, so yours is better - if it can be made to work. And lastly, your driveshaft length may or may not be correct. If it isn't right, you might need to get it shortened, or buy another one, but measure and check it out before you just throw it out and do something new. =)

 

[66slvrpny]

The flexplate he has listed is wrong. A 50 oz imbalance flexplate will shake your engine apart. You need one for a 289/302 with 28.5 imbalance. The tooth count/type is determined by the bell housing (in this case 164 tooth) but the balance is determined by your engine.

This flexplate should work.

And as stated, you won't need the late model shifter, boot, or knob. Just use your factory shifter stuff. It will bolt right up.

Your existing driveshaft *may* be the correct length, without swapping your new transmission tailshaft. There are a lot of options for dealing with the length/u-joint/yoke situation.

Also, I would *try* (no pun intended) your Tri-Y headers. Many of them do work with the AOD or 4R70W transmissions. If they are close, many times you can simply use a board or similar lever to bend them out and gain the clearance you need. You can sometimes stick an axe handle or the like into the end of the collector and gain a half-inch or so just by prying. Because yours are ceramic coated, this may damage the coating in some places, but at least you wouldn't have to buy a new set!

So - bottom line here, you're not going from a manual to an automatic here. All of your shifter stuff is fine, so don't buy anything shift-related except the controller. If your exhaust can be made to clear, you won't want to buy any of the exhaust stuff either - although his parts choice will work, I'm sure. I much prefer Tri-Y headers to shorties in every way, so yours is better - if it can be made to work. And lastly, your driveshaft length may or may not be correct. If it isn't right, you might need to get it shortened, or buy another one, but measure and check it out before you just throw it out and do something new. =)

As always Grim thank you for the advice it is much appreciated. I will take the route you are suggesting as for my rear end I am thinking on going with this for my gears https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-24092

and this for the diff
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-26002

Any tips on these items?
Also and advice on the gear change out? ive never done any rear end work so its a first for me. Also should I be replacing anything eles back there while im doing this?
Im not ordering today but I am getting all my parts in line before I drop the hammer.

 

[Grimbrand]

I've never done rear gears either, but I do know that it involves some work with a hydraulic press. (I don't own one of those yet.) You're in uncharted territory for me too. =)

I too have been doing a lot of research on it though, for the day I have enough moolah to do the same transmission/rear gears swap you are!

Instead of the clutch type limited slip though, I decided to go with a helical gear (Torsen type) setup. The parts don't wear out, and it flat out works better. The only downside is initial cost. Eaton Tru-Trac

 

[66slvrpny]

I've never done rear gears either, but I do know that it involves some work with a hydraulic press. (I don't own one of those yet.) You're in uncharted territory for me too. =)

I too have been doing a lot of research on it though, for the day I have enough moolah to do the same transmission/rear gears swap you are!

Instead of the clutch type limited slip though, I decided to go with a helical gear (Torsen type) setup. The parts don't wear out, and it flat out works better. The only downside is initial cost. Eaton Tru-Trac

Thanks again Grim I am going to look into that Eaton diff your looking at. I like the idea parts not wearing out plus it's $60 cheaper then the Yukon I was looking at. Yeah this car has put a real hurt on my pocket book since I got it but it's becoming one bad machine without going the insane route and slapping a coyote motor and 4 link rear in it.

 

[66slvrpny]

What would you recommend as far as a torque converter? I have the one that was on the 01 stang trans that I got but im not sure if that would be good for my application.

 

[Grimbrand]

With the 4R70W, just go with stock. 1st gear is so low, in a light car like yours it wouldn't make sense to have a high stall converter at all.

 

[66slvrpny]

With the 4R70W, just go with stock. 1st gear is so low, in a light car like yours it wouldn't make sense to have a high stall converter at all.

Ok thank you that saves money. I am assuming that I cant use my stock 289 indexing plat and inspection plate. Would you have any recommendations for that?

 

[Grimbrand]

You will need to use the stuff off your donor car. The Windsor pattern is the same whether it's a 289, 5.0 or a V6. Or, order new parts suitable for a 5.0 HO, if you are buying this the hard way.

You have yours listed in the CJ Pony Parts section as an AOD starter indexer plate. (AOD and 4R70W are very closely related.) The big difference between them is the electronic controls for the 4R70W. That eliminates the weak 2 piece input shaft, and mechanical lockup garbage for the AOD, along with the TV cable stuff. Plus, of course, the lower 1st gear. But externally, the two are pretty similar, so the 'starter indexer plate' will work with either.

If you want to read up a bit more, here's a great link for you! https://www.becontrols.com/techguide_2.shtml

 

[imps]

I've never done rear gears either, but I do know that it involves some work with a hydraulic press. (I don't own one of those yet.) You're in uncharted territory for me too. =)............

I did 9" Ford gearsets for years without an axle press (hydraulic press). Difficult but doable. Removing stubborn pressed-on inner roller bearing races is done with one of these:
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.fs-bc_P5b3Yzimg5knbfggHaHa&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

while holding the diff carrier in a big vise. Ditto pinion rear bearing. Wheel bearings are another animal.

 

[66slvrpny]

You will need to use the stuff off your donor car. The Windsor pattern is the same whether it's a 289, 5.0 or a V6. Or, order new parts suitable for a 5.0 HO, if you are buying this the hard way.

You have yours listed in the CJ Pony Parts section as an AOD starter indexer plate. (AOD and 4R70W are very closely related.) The big difference between them is the electronic controls for the 4R70W. That eliminates the weak 2 piece input shaft, and mechanical lockup garbage for the AOD, along with the TV cable stuff. Plus, of course, the lower 1st gear. But externally, the two are pretty similar, so the 'starter indexer plate' will work with either.

If you want to read up a bit more, here's a great link for you! https://www.becontrols.com/techguide_2.shtml

I'll check out that link. So if the bolt pattern is the same could I use the original "66 289" index plate that is on my car now? The car my new trans came out of is long gone so it's all new parts or nothing for me. I'm just wondering what I can use that I already have i.e starter, flex plate bolts, starter index plate and bell housings to motor mounting bolts. Keep in mind all these are off the original 289 to c4.

 

[Grimbrand]

Your starter is located by the bellhousing, and even though the bolt holes and mounting dowels are the same for both, the new transmission's bellhousing and starter location are slightly different.

The separator plate needs to match the transmission, not the block. Your flex plate bolts will probably be fine! You will need a new starter and index plate, along with the cover plate for the underside of the transmission bell, since none of your C4 stuff will fit the 4R70W.

 

[66slvrpny]

Your starter is located by the bellhousing, and even though the bolt holes and mounting dowels are the same for both, the new transmission's bellhousing and starter location are slightly different.

The separator plate needs to match the transmission, not the block. Your flex plate bolts will probably be fine! You will need a new starter and index plate, along with the cover plate for the underside of the transmission bell, since none of your C4 stuff will fit the 4R70W.

Ok thank you for the input I kinda figured that.

 

[66slvrpny]

Your starter is located by the bellhousing, and even though the bolt holes and mounting dowels are the same for both, the new transmission's bellhousing and starter location are slightly different.

The separator plate needs to match the transmission, not the block. Your flex plate bolts will probably be fine! You will need a new starter and index plate, along with the cover plate for the underside of the transmission bell, since none of your C4 stuff will fit the 4R70W.

I've picked out most everything now. I'm just looking for a cross member. This is the one from the how to but it's a little pricy. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cpo-tra-656-639/
Any suggestions on a cheaper one? Or should I not bicker about the price lol

 

[johnwaz3661]

FWIW, I got a cross member from NPD (I think National Driveline makes them?) when I did the 3 speed to T-5 swap on my '65. I don't remember what I paid for it tho. Good luck with your 4R70W swap.

 

[Charles Reeves]

Sorry if this gets posted twice, but it didn't seem to work first time.

CJ Pony has several cross members listed for the AOD, but not sure if they will work for the 4R70W:

https://www.cjponyparts.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Aod+crossmember

 

[66slvrpny]

Thanks for the tips guys. I think I'll end up going with the one I linked. One road block I've hit but it's not major is can I use my original c4 trans mounting bolts or do I need longer ones?

 

[Grimbrand]

The original bolts should work fine. =)